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Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:33 pm
by HappyHippy
Hiya folks,
Following on from sadly losing one of my young boars following a routine castration, I'm doing a bit of research which will hopefully prove helpful to all Kune owners/breeders BUT I need more information than just my own and I'm hoping you'll all be able to help :wink:

I was going to try a pole, but think it might be too complicated for my feeble brain :oops:

Could all breeders think back over their last couple of litters and please tell me for one or two litters ...

1) Bloodlines bred from (sire/dam)
2) No. of boars v gilts
3) No. of boars born with signs of hernia & any action taken (castration, hernia repair, etc)
4) No. of boars who suffered hernia's only during or after castration (and the type of castration method used, if known - open/closed)
5) What the outcome was and any other information you think might be helpfull.

If you'd rather pm or email me that's fine, my email address is kkjmckay@aol.com - I appreciate it's not an easy subject to talk about and if you'd prefer not to share publicly that's fine.

I hope to be able to pull together some statistics, talk to some experienced Kune vets and report back with my findings. All information will be treated confidentially and no owners or individual pigs will be named - it's just the numbers & experiences I'm interested in.

Thanking you all in advance & looking forward to your input,
Karen x

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:36 am
by wendy scu
last litter - Jenny/Te Whangi 7 piglets, no hernias
previous litter - Jenny Te whangi - 8 piglets , 2 hernias

now that's not much help to you i know BUT i can tell you that in 10 years of breeding kunes, almost every litter with hernias has had Andrew on the mther side second gen or father side first gen.
I have never had a post op hernia.
Always do closed castration. only every had one piglet die post op.

goo luck - this is a very worthwhile poll and i hope you get plenty of response,

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:39 pm
by HappyHippy
Thanks for your reply Wendy (and come on everyone else :wink: )
Interesting comment about the Andrew line - my last boar was Te Whangi (with no Andrew in the pedigree) and the sow was Awakino (and again no Andrew anywhere in the history) three litters ago we had a piglet (from a litter of 9 - 6 boars, 3 gilts) who herniated during castration (succesfully repaired) last litter we had no problems (10 piglets, 5 of each) but in this litter (12 piglets, 6 of each) we had 2 with hernia's pre-castration. Seems like it's risen as the parents have gotten older or perhaps it's the weather that's affecting it ?
Certainly the abscence of Andrew in my lines doesn't seem to be making it a bloodline issue :?
But 2 people hardly makes a comprehensive survey :roll: need more input people :D
Karen x

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:46 pm
by The Rushbury Pig
Hi there,

My last two litters were Awakino/Tutaki and Awakino/Ru 6 Piglets in each litter and I think each litter had a 50:50 split of boars to gilts. No pre op or post op hernias. Not much help when looking for incidences but, after reading Wendy's comment, perhaps it's worth mentioning that on the mother's side, Andrew appeared as both as Gs and GgS.

I've got two litters due in March and hopefully another will be due in May. I can let you know those once they've happened! :)

Good Luck, I'm very interested to see what your findings are......you need more people to input date though :wink:

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:07 pm
by alison stephen
we have had 2 litters RU/AWAKINO both with 11 piglets with 6 boars/5 gilts each time. no hernias in first litter but in the second, while the vet was doing the castrations i was asking about hernias he found the tiny runt to have one, we took him to the surgery where he gauzed and stapled him and he has been fine and now for keeps!! i do beleive, when i read about that it could happen with mishandling, as he was the smallest/cute my girls would pick him up alot, i didnt tell them this as they would have been devastated to think it was their fault!
the boar has got andrew in his line and so has the sow!

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 1:04 pm
by Carol
My last 2 litters were AWAKINO/TE WHANGI , 3 piglets, and JENNY /ANDREW, 6 piglets. Of these 9 there were 7 boars!! 3 were castrated, including a little runt that was bottle fed, lived in the kitchen in front of the aga and was constantly being picked up - maybe Alison you were just unlucky with yours. Of the others, 2 went for breeding and two are in the freezer.
I have had a total of 18 boar piglets and have not, as yet, experienced a hernia in any of them. The castrations are done under general aneasthetic and are closed.
With regard to bloodline, all my pigs have Andrew somewhere in their ancestry.

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:45 pm
by HappyHippy
Thanks for your replies folks :D

Hmmmm, it would seem there's absolutely no pattern whatsoever then :? But still only a few examples so there's still time for something to emerge :wink:

Alison, I don't think it's mishandling either (at least not always) - we've not had a lot of holding/lifting of these ones at all (other than counting teats, piri's, recording sex and giving iron jags on day 3) they've been petted, but not lifted. The one I had from a couple of litters ago who herniated during castration was the runt too - but I think it's just a coincidence as the two in this litter were far from runty.

Keep those thoughts and numbers coming folks please !
Karen x

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:35 pm
by The Rushbury Pig
Your last post has just made me think of something my vet has commented on when castrating. He says that the smaller 'runts' tend to have much thicker chords to cut through and it can be really tough!! They are always the ones he has more concerns about wrt hernias and aftercare.

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:49 pm
by HappyHippy
I'll expand a bit on exactly what happened with my last ones, incase it helps anyone - we had 2 boars going for closed castration at 7 weeks old with the vet. Let's call them Vic & Bob :wink:
Vic the bigger of the two weighed in at 22.3Kg and had a larger hernia than Bob, who weighed 17.8Kg (so neither of them particularly small :shock: )
Vic got his castration, but due to the size of the hernia the vet had to go 'in' on his side and repair it, small cut and a couple of stitches. All was fine.
Bob's hernia, being smaller was able to be repaired during castration without further surgery. The vet put the hernia back through the inguinal ring and stitched the hole (sorry, there's probably a more technical explaination for the proceedure :roll: ) All was fine.
I brought them both home that night and they were quiet, understandably, but fine and the following day were moving about quite the thing eating, drinking, feeding from mum fine and looking fully recovered.
The next morning hubby went up to feed them all and found Bob lying dead with a lot of swelling at the back end :( The vet receptionist happened to phone about something else and asked how the piglets were doing, I explained what had happened and that I didn't hold the vet responsible - it's just one of those things that happens sometimes isn't it ? Anyway the vet himself phoned back and asked if I would mind taking the piglet over so he could PM him for his own information/peace of mind. The PM revealed that the stitch the vet had put in was still in place, everything with the castration had been fine but Bob had herniated in another bit of the inguinal ring - a big hernia which had strangulated and was the cause of death.
So, it was just "one of those things" - but me (being a woman, and a picky one at that :wink: ) would like to find out how commonly "these things" happen, hence this thread !
Karen x

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:02 pm
by repatexpat
I've read what I could find on the Board castration and hernias. Before I phone our local large animal vet again, can someone confirm that a closed castration requires full anaesthetic whereas an open castration doesn't? When I spoke to him last week, the vet implied that just a local was used, so I am concluding that their standard practice is an open castration. Am I right in saying that experienced breeders of kunekunes recommend closed castrations because of the risk of hernias?

Thanks for guidance.

Re: Incidence of hernia's in kunekune boars

Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:56 pm
by wendy scu
absolutely right