Pedigree Ear Tags

General chat about kunekune pigs
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simon
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Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by simon » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:58 pm

Can I ask peoples opinions on the current BKKPS pedigree ear tags?
At the moment when you register a pedigree kunekune you get a certificate and an ear tag (or for castrates you just get the certificate). The ear tag gets sent to the new owner, who often does not have a tagger.

Instead the breeder could buy a batch of BKKPS ear tags (about £10 for 25 tags inc. postage) and then enter the ear tag details onto the pedigree registration form, so that the ear tag number would still appear on the pedigree certificate. I think this is how the BPA do it for other pedigree breeds.

Next question - should it be a BKKPS rule that the breeder HAS to put the pedigree ear tag in before the piglet leaves his holding?

Another way of identifying a pig is by these ID chips that cats & dogs have. I understand this is what they are doing in the USA with kunes but its not something I've come across, does anyone do this with their kunekunes?

truella
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by truella » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:27 pm

I do actually think the pedigree tag SHOULD be put in by the breeder & not sent to the buyer for the reason you have stated, most buyers don't own a set of pliers & won't go out & buy a set to put a couple of tags in a couple of pigs ears if they have bought them just as pets. Alot of people actually think its cruel too so won't even entertain the idea.

The first boar I bought did not have his tag in & trying to tag him when he was fully grown was, well, entertaining! I loved watching the vet getting dragged around the pen while he was tagging a very sedated, but still functional boar. :lol:

I do think that the tags should also have the defra herd mark of the breeder printed on the kunekune tags too though as alot of the pigs just have the KK tags & nothing else.

As for the 'identi-chip', I would much rather put a visual tag in the ear than have the cost of a vet to put a chip under the skin, that unless a vet checks no-one else can chech the identity of the pig.
Mind over Matter...........You don't mind, it doesn't matter!!!!!

Pandora
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by Pandora » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:41 pm

Our 3 year old boar had his head in a bucket of apples and didn't flinch! :D

As you have no need to tag until 12 months old, and then ONLY if your pig leaves the holding... most pet kune owners prefer not to have them in, and they will often get ripped out over time, causing unsightly appearance to ears.

Different kettle of fish in meat pigs of course.
Never test the depth of the water with both feet!

Di
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by Di » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:20 pm

I tend to agree with Pandora although of course if they are going for meat then they need metal tags and not the plastic KK ones. Also I don't register them if they are going for meat.

Pandora
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by Pandora » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:00 pm

Yes exactly Di, it's metal ones or slapmarks for the abattoir isn't it, so I don't really think many of the plastic BKKPS ones actually get used for pet pigs to be honest Simon, unless you show etc.
Never test the depth of the water with both feet!

simon
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by simon » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:14 pm

For the purposes of the pedigrees all we need from an eartag is that it is unique. So it could either have a unique BKKPS number on it, or it could have your holding number + an incremental number on. It could even be metal.

I know at the moment a lot of people do not put the ear tags in, but should we make it mandatory for a pedigree breeding kune?

Di
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by Di » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:29 pm

I put the KK plastic ear tag in my sow because in her younger days I showed her. It came out sometime ago and so she now has no tag, I personally hate ear tags in any animal as they are constantly falling out and taking parts of the ear with them so unless absolutely necessary (showing or abbatoir) I am afraid I don't tag.

Bit of a rush when we get an inspection of the cows!!

truella
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by truella » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:19 pm

I understand that alot of poeple would rather not tag & at first, I was against it too.
The BPA do actually insist on 2 forms of identification of any pig that is to be registered (& meat pigs are supposed to have the same - NOT that I bother tagging, tattoing or notching the meatpigs when a slap mark will do for the abbotoir), so I have actually become quite used to it.
I would actually be quite lost if none of mine were tagged & tattoed.
In my eyes, ANY pig that is registered (even castrates) should be identified via tagging, tattoing or notching. If they aren't identified & put up for sale later on (change of circumstances do happen), how does anyone know that the certificate IS actually for the pig being sold?
I am not saying that alot of people WOULD pull that trick, but there ARE some people that would.
Granted, the colour on the certificate should give you an idea (ie, ginger pig being passed off as a black & white), but how can you be 100% sure you are buying the right pig if the pig has no form of identification?
Mind over Matter...........You don't mind, it doesn't matter!!!!!

truella
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by truella » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:23 pm

Pandora wrote:Our 3 year old boar had his head in a bucket of apples and didn't flinch! :D
.
:wink: Tried apples, milk, mixed fruit, everything to try & get it in, the vet was the final option. Bless him. I'd rather tag them when they are small & the ears not quite as tough. :lol:
Mind over Matter...........You don't mind, it doesn't matter!!!!!

cloudybay
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by cloudybay » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:22 pm

I do agree that if you breed it you should tag it.

It is also law that if you move any pig off of your holding for no matter what reason then it has to be TAGGED.

Metal Plastic it doesn't matter it has to be tagged.

No excuses

What would you write on the AML2 if the animal is not tagged. (AML2 Movement licence)

Di
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by Di » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:50 pm

I understood that under 12 months old a pig could be moved with a coloured mark. That's what I have always done and entered on the movement form. Never had a problem. The only exception is if you take piglets to a show when they need eartags.

truella
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by truella » Sun Dec 18, 2011 8:53 pm

That is right Di, any pig under 1 year old can legally be moved with a blue dot, red line or a black cross as a temporary mark.

Any of the other breeds of pig that I breed, which may meet the breed standard of registration, tagged, tattoed &/or notched at weaning (8 weeks), which I do believe should be a firm condition of breeding any pedigree pig, be it as a pet or for future breeding.

Any pig that is destined for the abbatoir on the other hand is different, as most (other breeds) may be lucky enough to make it to 8 or 9 months. Why waste tags when a good old 'slap' will do?
Mind over Matter...........You don't mind, it doesn't matter!!!!!

The Rushbury Pig
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by The Rushbury Pig » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:08 pm

I keep Berkshires and Middle Whites as well as kunekune and have kept many other traditional rare breed pigs in the past so am very familiar with the BPA system and would be happy to adopt this or a similar system for my kunekune. I do realise however that this system, along with many others, is not perfect.

Tagging and forms of identification of pure bred pedigree pigs seem to be hotly debated by all breed societies and even the BPA because of the concern about maintaining purebred pedigree breeds that have not been crossbred. Many breeders feel that the only way is tattoing, slapmarking and ear notching as tagging is not guaranteed to identify a pig. In principal, I won’t ear notch so have to double tag my Berkshire pigs if they are pedigree registered. I do this when they are 8 week old weaners so I can pick them up, disinfect and do it with the minimum of fuss.

Should we not be encouraging breeders to use the BPA system(or similar) as we need to make an attempt to reduce people being sold so called pedigree kunekune who may not be registered or, even worse, may actually be cross bred and not a kunekune at all. I know that ear tags can come out and there are other issues relating to them but, in my experience, very few pigs ever lose or pull out the button tags if they are positioned carefully and these can easily be replaced. They do pull out metal ones and it is not pleasant when they do so.

I am really keen on trying to preserve and protect the rare breed pedigree bloodlines and bloodstock, maintaining them as pedigree as close to the original breeds as possible. Through crossbreeding we could lose many of our breeds so am keen to use a system which enables monitoring and registration of pedigree pigs easier. I would be open to another system that achieved this but am not at all keen on chipping as this requires deep injection by a vet to chip and then a vet to check to see if there is a chip there………it is however one of the few ways to guarantee the pig is what it says on the pedigree but I think it may be a step too far????

I am really interested to hear what other breeders think about this topic too as many of them remain silent…..………???!!!
Cheerio for now, Sam Jones :-)

BKKPS Chairperson
Email : samjonesbkkps@aol.com
Tel: 0845 489 5863, leaving a message for the secretary who will forward to me.

The Rushbury Pig
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Re: Pedigree Ear Tags

Post by The Rushbury Pig » Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:19 pm

I should have added that what I have written above applies to registered pedigree pigs for breeding and yes, simon, I do think it should be mandatory for breeding pigs. :)

I agree with many of the other comments on it not being necessary for pet pigs/meat pigs unless you need to as per the defra rules on moving between holdings over 12 months or going to an abattoir. Although, there are instances where I do tag these where people have specifically asked for them to be tagged.
Cheerio for now, Sam Jones :-)

BKKPS Chairperson
Email : samjonesbkkps@aol.com
Tel: 0845 489 5863, leaving a message for the secretary who will forward to me.

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