Registering breeding boar piglets

General chat about kunekune pigs
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wendy scu
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Registering breeding boar piglets

Post by wendy scu » Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:57 am

The registering of breeding boars has been under committee discussion for some time now and we have now reached a conclusion/decision.
the following will be implemented as from 1st May 2011 with the intention of raising the standard of registered breeding boars:

New members who have been breeding kunekunes for less than one year will not be permitted to register any breeding boars. (with the exception of those already bred)

Thereafter, a maximum of two boar piglets per year may be registered for breeding for the following 2 years. (eg a breeder of less than 3 years standing may register a maximum of 2 piglet per year)

Thereafter, a breeder may register only a quantity of boar piglets equivalent to the amount of years for which he has been breeding.
(eg - if you have been breeding for 4 years, you may register a maximum of 4 boar piglets per year)

If anyone has any questions or queries about this, please contact me or indeed put them up here for discussion

Carol
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Post by Carol » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:22 pm

What is the definition of 'breeding'. The date the sow went to the boar, or the date the sow was served, or the date the piglets were born, or some other criteria?

wendy scu
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Post by wendy scu » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:33 pm

The definition of breeding for this purpose will be from the date of birth of the breeder's first litter

Carol
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Post by Carol » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:38 pm

Thanks Wendy.

Pandora
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Post by Pandora » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:13 pm

I have to say this decision really concerns me. I can't help feeling this is going to add enormously to the amount of 'unregistered' kunekune's, at a time when registration is already being ignored. A quick look in the classifieds demonstrates this well enough!

I am very picky about any that go as breeding stock... (of my new litter of nine, there is only ONE boar I currently consider good enough), but I'm sorry to say I think a lot of people will simply sell entire boars unregistered now, in order to avoid castrations etc. or if they have a buyer who wants to breed, or wants a particular colour.

Surely it would be preferable to have a strict criteria that must be adhered to, i.e: two well attached piris, correct teats, standard colours (i.e. not wild hog), proper conformation, etc. rather than limiting the number? Would that not lead to passing up many possibly perfect specimens, only for others to register a lesser quality one if they have any quota left?

Also, if someone breeds one or two litters a year for say 5 years, how does that give them a better eye than someone who breeds perhaps 6-7 litters per year and will be more experienced at comparison?

The society's first aim states:
?To encourage the breeding and owning of kunekune pigs and promote their welfare.
Would it not simply have been prudent to have the standard met for ALL breeding stock, with a check list for purchasers to verify with the BKKPS? Perhaps an appendage to the individual pedigree form for the buyer to sign before it is submitted. As it stands, ALL gilts can go on the breeding register ~ the boars are of course only half the story, and (until now) ANY boar.

I understand this is a complicated issue, and I don't wish to sound as though I am simplifying the society's concerns, but whilst the theory of this proposal seems sound... in practice, can you police it?
Never test the depth of the water with both feet!

wendy scu
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Post by wendy scu » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:12 pm

Hi Pandora - please discuss by all means - thats why the thread was started.

We have considered 'boar approval' but there are problems with this:

First, the timescale - how could we visit and approve boar piglets before the time that they would need to be castrated? this would leave a window of only 3 or 4 weeks.
who would approve them? we have a very limited number of judges and 50% of them are over retirement age and would not wish to travel hundreds of miles to do this.
the expense would be several hundred pounds per piglet taking into consideration time and mileage. Who would foot the bill?

We also considered boar 'gatherings' to bring boars along for grading but again this will take a great deal of organisation and be very expensive.

We considered photographic approval - but this does not take into account the movement or the temperament of the pig. Also, photos are not really reliable in some cases.

We already have a strict criteria - the breed standard - but the majority of people breeding find it hard to equate this to a live pig, particularly a piglet. The majority of boar piglets seem to be selected on colour, whch actually doesn't feature on the standard at all.

I'm afraid i disagree with you regarding the amount of litters bred. I think you can breed 20 litters from two mediocre pigs and it wouldn' teach you anything about selection at all. the way to learn is to look at a huge variety of pigs, visit shows, see the pigs that win the prizes, listen to the judge's critique of the pigs in the ring. Visit breeders of long standing like Andy Case, Margaret Wolfendale who have been looking at and selecting pigs for 15 years.

At present a gilt who is considered not good enough for breeding can be registered as a 'pet' pig and there is a box to tick to say whether she is transferable for breeding or not. Not all gilts should go on the breeding register.
I appreciate your concerns about unregistered boars but my feeling is that the progeny from inadequate boars may just as well be unregistered as they do the breed no good at all. We have many inadequate boars on the stud register and they are producing masses of inadequate piglets.

I don't think you can pass the 'approval' on to buyers - most buyers are inexperienced and expect guidance from the seller as to what is and isn't a good pig.
I take many sows in for stud here and the majority of people think their sow is well within the breed standard. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

wendy scu
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Post by wendy scu » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:20 pm

ps - forgot to say that out of i think 10 litters last year, i only registered 2 boar piglets
simon will correct me if i'm wrong on that!

Pandora
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Post by Pandora » Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:40 pm

Hi Wendy,

I do completely defer to you on this, I know how passionate you are about Kune's.

By approval, I totally accept visitation judges would be out of the question. By verification signing, I sort of meant the breeder should have to show the buyer that each criteria on the approval list is met, and the buyer would sign acceptance before pedigree submission... or dissagree. If this was implemented for breeding gilts too, it may improve things up to a point?

I understand what you are saying about beauty being in the eye of the beholder! :lol: and take your point about diversity experience, so lets hope some ethics can be maintained within the Kune's world, instead of the exploitation we see in some other pedigree species.

Good luck!
Never test the depth of the water with both feet!

simon
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Post by simon » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:26 pm

Pandora, please don't just defer. Everyones opinions are important. I can see a lot of people have read this thread and I would expect more reaction! Discussion is always good.

Heres a few facts:
138 entire boars were registered in 2010.
68 of the entire boars registered in 2010 were from breeders who had started breeding in 2010.
A few breeders registered more entire boars than gilts.
If these rules had been in place in 2010 it would have meant new breeders would not have been able to register a total of 68 boars, but other than that it would have (I think) affected one other breeder.

Pandora
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Post by Pandora » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:50 am

Thanks Simon... it's just that sometimes my big mouth runs ahead of qualification! :oops: :wink: Particularly as it doesn't affect me, but if I'm getting to the point where I could cheerfully strangle some of the people involved with Kune's/pigs who have such blatant disregard for what is right, then I don't envy the difficult job you all have within the society.

Those stats are very interesting ~ I take the point.... still think a breeding / non-breeding check list attached to pedigree forms might be a help though? :roll: I'll shut up now... :lol:
Never test the depth of the water with both feet!

wendy scu
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Post by wendy scu » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:10 pm

we have had considerable feedback on this discussion and valid points have been raised which we will be discussing so this arrangement may well be subject to change,
will keep you all posted!

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